Mindful Unrest

When your house is burning, it feels like the whole world is on fire. That is how one student described her experience since October 7, when the heated protests and divisive debates over the war in Gaza erupted on her campus and on campuses across the country. For many students like her, the conflict is personal, it is political, and it is tangled up in all the things she is already struggling with: finding her identity, navigating friendships, and striving to retain intellectual curiosity while also feeling really angry.

For higher education, the Israel-Hamas war has rocked its own foundation, exposing not just elephants in the room but real wooly mammoths like the definition of free speech, the role of the presidential pulpit in geopolitical events, and the degree to which institutions tolerate or enable extreme political views. All of these issues relate to the overall wellbeing of students and of campus communities, issues that have emerged as important priorities for colleges and universities given the rates of anxiety and depression students, and faculty and staff, have been reporting.  

It would seem there would be no better time for campuses to be working on those elements that we know help humans flourish, such as empathy, civility, community and self-awareness. But very little of that is cutting through the vitriol, blame, and anger that are unavoidably replayed on non-silenced screens.  How can higher education use this moment in time, and others before it, to understand some of what is happening and to begin to heal through the power of its own resources and assets? LearningWell asked a number of people what they think.  Here is our first guest interview.

Gene Beresin, MD, MAis executive director of The Clay Center for Young Healthy Minds at Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH), a full professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School (HMS), and senior educator in child and adolescent psychiatry at MGH.

LW: What is your reaction to the way the conflict in the Middle East is playing out on college campuses?  

GB: Colleges are places that can raise issues that are highly controversial, that involve conflict, that generate high levels of emotion and that require civil conversations.  We want college campuses to be places where students feel safe enough to speak their minds, to disagree in ways that are interesting, that engage them. The problem in this particular instance with the war between Israel and Hamas is that I don’t think that there has been sufficient attention given to how to deal with conflict.

We try to teach our younger kids social emotional learning, principles of wellbeing, controlling our own emotions such as rage, shame, humiliation, passion, and in ways which are helpful. But what’s happened here in my view is that lines are being drawn in the sand. The students have been taking sides. And even though the leadership of many colleges have said, “we want this to be a safe place, and that there’s no room for terrorism or hatred or brutal behavior,” I have not heard much at all about principles of conflict resolution. It seems to me that students on both sides of the issue need to understand that there’s tremendous power to resolving conflict and dealing with conflict. And there are principles, for example, of noting the appreciation of differences, of acceptance, of tolerance, and the ability to love and respect each other despite our disagreements. But that does not seem to be happening.  I’ve heard a lot about free speech. I’ve heard a lot about the right to express your own opinions. I’ve heard a lot of platitudes, but I have not heard anything about principles.

LW:  How would these principles apply on college campuses today where disagreement appears to be the only thing people are focused on? 

GB:  We need to hold open conversations and active listening to both points of view. If we take a pedantic view of this and we look at history, both the Palestinians and the Jewish people in that region, both groups of people have been conquered, oppressed, displaced and brutalized by outside influences. If you look at it, there’s a lot in common between the Palestinian people and the Jewish people and we should take a step back and appreciate both points of view. 

“I’ve heard a lot about free speech. I’ve heard a lot about the right to express your own opinions. I’ve heard a lot of platitudes, but I have not heard anything about principles.”

Principle two is avoid being judgmental. When one is a subject of criticism or rage or a personal affront from a mental health standpoint, there’s the risk of feeling blamed, devalued, shamed, humiliated.  When on the defensive, the impulse is to counterattack. It basically fires up the amygdala and the fight or flight response, and it doesn’t generate oxytocin, which is the kind of neurochemical that brings us together.

Another principle is having frequent conversations that are under control. Many of the protests that I’ve seen have not been well controlled. They’ve been people screaming at each other. We’re not going to get anywhere by screaming at each other. We’re not going to resolve conflict. Another principle is learning to apologize. If I’ve offended you, if you’ve offended me, there’s tremendous power in apologizing for lashing out, for attacking another point of view. And what do you have to lose? Nothing really. You have a lot to gain by seeing what’s in common and by making one’s own reparations. I think that’s another principle of conflict resolution that I have not seen much of at all. 

Violence should, in every case, not be tolerated. Not tolerated in the Middle East, not tolerated in the United States, not tolerated on college campuses. And violence, I mean in word as well as in deed. Name-calling, attacking personally, ruthless behavior should be unacceptable. 

I think another principle is that the solution to this problem is not going to be easy, and it’s not one side giving into another or one side being right or one side being wrong.  It’s complicated, it’s nuanced. It requires accountability. You don’t resolve a conflict like this by a win or a loss. You resolve it in a way that leaves some things unresolved by demonstration of empathy, putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. I have not heard much at all from anyone including administrations or studentprotesters, about empathically understanding what the other side has endured. I can’t stress it enough. If the students can’t empathize with the impact of these horrifying events, if they can’t see that the trauma that’s happened to virtually everyone is extraordinarily traumatic, extraordinarily sad, extraordinarily dehumanizing, then we’re not going to get anywhere.

We want our kids from toddlerhood through young adulthood and beyond to understand principles of having civil conversations. And for the most part, these have not been civilized. So is there demonstration of respect? When you’re all fired up, you don’t demonstrate respect. And when you don’t demonstrate respect, you foster trauma, you foster distrust, dishonesty in some sense, and saying things that are hurtful and traumatic to other people. We should be able to respect differences. We try to teach our young children to take turns, to use the golden rule, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don’t see much of that. I’m getting back to basics here. Basics that are psychological principles and principles of conversation and understanding that we want to teach kids from toddlerhood through adulthood.

Another principle of civil conversations is telling stories. What we’ve learned from all of our major scriptures, whether it’s the Quran or the Torah or the Bible, is that every scripture in the world lives through narratives and I think people can really begin to listen to each other through stories and through narratives. One of the reasons why all the scriptures have been built upon narratives is because narratives generate not only emotions, but questions about trajectories, about lives, about family, about loss, about trauma.

LW: What do you think about this from a mental health perspective?

GB: The bottom line is that this insoluble situation, this inflammatory situation is not only traumatizing, but breeds depression, anxiety, stress, and in some cases, hopelessness, loneliness, and suicidal thinking. I mean, it has all the elements of inflaming the mental health crisis that our college students are already undergoing. 

Stages of rage and trauma and high levels of emotion are not good for physical, emotional, or mental health. They fire up the immune system. They affect our sleep. They change our hormonal systems. They suppress the releases of oxytocin that makes us feel together and connected. So they have physiological effects that are dangerous. They have mental health effects that are dangerous, and they foster social disconnection, which I think is very detrimental for students on college campuses. So neurophysiologically, emotionally, and behaviorally and psychologically, these kinds of vitriolic demonstrations are not conducive to mental health. One can still express one’s point of view in a powerful way and not take a beating physically, mentally, emotionally, behaviorally.

Look, anger is a normal response. Anger prepares us for fight or flight. It’s a normal emotion. But when anger is extreme, when anger becomes laced with rage and hate, it is uncontrollable, and it clouds our cognition. It clouds our thinking. It clouds our ability to engage with others, and it puts us in an attack mode. So I think one of the other things that I would welcome is for not just students, but everyone involved in this very difficult and traumatic situation, is to use principles of anger management. If we can cool our jets, we’re in a much better place to actually talkwith each other and have civil conversations and have some kind of conflict resolution. And what this means is knowing when you’re angry and knowing when you’re coming from a place of anger rather than a more neutral emotional state.

Identifying your triggers for anger is really important. We all know road rage – the car that cuts us off, we want to just kind of slam into it. But we don’t do it. It’s okay to have impulses and angry impulses, but it’s not okay to act out on it. And one has toidentify one’s triggers. A lot of times the triggers here are identification with one’s cultural heritage, but that doesn’t necessarily mean attacking the other person. And a third principle of anger management is controlling your thoughts. Yes, we’re feeling angry. Yes, we’re feeling hateful. Yes, we’re feeling that we’ve got to do something, but it’s like one of my favorite supervisors said to me once, “A lot of times when you’re doing therapy, don’t just do something, sit there.” And I don’t see people just sitting there.  I don’t see people sitting there and taking things in and processing it without impulsively blurting things out. 

LW: How do you think colleges and universities should react? 

GB: I think the role of the leadership should be to provide and empower different segments on campus to actually promote these principles, so we need faculty and student training in conflict resolution,  civil conversations, and anger management. Secondly, this is not a “one-off.”  As a child, you learn things in places of worship, in the boys and girls club, in the community, in the home, on the playground.  We need stakeholders on campus to communicate these principles in reinforcing ways.  The dorm leaders, the heads of our student mental health service, the dean of wellbeing, our clubs, our athletic teams, our coaches to all engage in some way in modeling civilized behavior because what we are seeing now is not civilized. 

It’s not as though we need to have an assembly or a meeting at the student center and have a debate and then we’re done. No, it’s not one and done. These are ongoing conversations that need to occur with dignity and with respect and with thoughtfulness and kindness and compassion and empathy in multiple different forums so that they can reinforce each other.  The leadership of colleges can say, “Look, there are no simple solutions.” Not many presidents have said this. “There are no simple solutions. But let’s try to turn things around.”

Let’s not let rage and hate lead to what we’re seeing in the Middle East with tragedy and loss of life. Let’s try to make our campus a model of civility. Let’s have multiple places in which we can communicate with each other respectfully in a calm fashion, present opposing points of view, agree to disagree, bring in history, bring in culture, bring in personal narratives, bring in spiritual narratives.  And let’s do it differently. Do we want to replicate this? Do we want to perpetuate a stalemate, or do we want to do something that actually brings us to a higher level of empathy and understanding?

Every Student, Everywhere

Loren Muwonge has lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin all her life. A senior in high school, Loren’s passion for the future of her city is as striking as her résumé. In addition to being a star student in the top percentile of her graduating class, Loren is the district 2 representative for the Milwaukee County Youth Commission, where she promotes civic engagement and provides a student perspective to policymakers charged with advancing educational and racial equity among Milwaukee youth. She is also a member of the Student Enrichment Program for Underrepresented Professions (StEP-UP) at the Medical College of Wisconsin; a Leadership Enterprise for a Diverse America (LEDA) scholar at Princeton; and an active volunteer for her church’s community outreach programs. In October, she spoke at a national policy summit on young adult mental health sponsored by the Jed Foundation.  

Loren Muwonge

When Loren speaks about what compelled her to advocate for education reform, equity and inclusion, and mental wellbeing on the national stage, she emphasizes the local roots of her activism. A 2018 study by the Brookings Institution’s Metropolitan Policy Program found that Milwaukee had the highest “black-white segregation” of any American metropolitan area.  This modern reality is largely due to decades of redlining, the discriminatory practice of denying loans and services to certain neighborhoods classified as “hazardous” to investment—the effects of which Loren has personally witnessed. As a Youth Commissioner, her initiatives include addressing and repairing the harm wrought by redlining in Milwaukee, as well as education reform, equitable resource distribution, and mental and behavioral healthcare access for low-income youth and students of color. 

During her Youth Commission’s swearing-in ceremony, Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley, who himself served on the county’s first-ever youth commission, remarked of the initiative, “Too often young voices go unheard; their problems, they go unaddressed, and a vicious cycle of disengagement and neglect perpetuates the problems that we see each day.” 

In hearing her story, it is clear that Loren’s voice, and those she amplifies, will not go unheard. 

LearningWell had the privilege to interview Loren Muwonge, and the following is a summary of our conversation. 

LearningWell: What would you like LearningWell readers to know about your background and how you began your advocacy journey?

Muwonge: I come from a redlined area in Wisconsin, one of the most segregated places in the nation. So, it’s really obvious and sometimes discouraging to see how that segregation manifests in my community, where some neighborhoods look better than others, and the areas that look worse and have fewer opportunities are the ones that are predominantly populated by minorities and people of color. That has led a lot of my advocacy work—seeing how redlining affects quality of life for residents, such as low-income communities having worse air quality than their suburban counterparts.

LearningWell: How did your advocacy work begin to include student mental health? 

Muwonge: I’m very inspired by Fred Hampton [of the Black Panther Party]. I was impressed and inspired by Hampton’s efforts to improve the success of his community by creating a free breakfast program for school children. I looked at my community, my peers, and their needs and I began to identify that my community can’t truly thrive without accounting for the mental health of the students. And for me, it really just became a matter of, okay, right now there is a need to improve mental health, especially in my district, in relation to the pandemic and the rising crime that we’re seeing with school shootings. I realized the best way that I could help was accounting for the mental health of my community by directly listening to the concerns of my peers.

LearningWell: Why is it important for education policymakers, administrators, and faculty to hear student perspectives on mental health and wellbeing?

“While everyone who pursues higher education has worked hard to be there, not everybody has been adequately supported to thrive in that place.”

Muwonge: We are the people directly affected by education policy, and while professionals may be able to look at data to assess trends—they might even spend time in the classroom, proctoring, observing—they can’t experience it firsthand. The data doesn’t replace the firsthand experience of being a student at this moment in time. We live in an evolving nation, with new factors affecting education, such as A.I., the rise in school shootings, and the student experience during the pandemic. It would be to their benefit if policymakers would talk to those directly affected, since we can provide feedback, voice our concerns, and give a human perspective that the data can’t. 

LearningWell: Based on your K-12 experience, do you believe that student wellbeing is a priority in American education?

Muwonge: I do not believe that student wellbeing is a priority in American public schools. There are many aspects to that issue, including the hours that teachers are working. I believe that teachers in America are undervalued, and they’re not given adequate support, whether it be for school supplies, resources, or fair pay. And I think that truly seeps into the education that students receive, because teachers don’t have enough time to account for factors such as wellbeing, especially since there are many parameters set in place that make it difficult for teachers to help and intervene. And then there are limits on their time; they have so much curricular content to get through, and they’re not being adequately supported themselves. 

LearningWell: Much of LearningWell’s audience is involved in higher education. What would you like them to know about the student experience? As you prepare to head to college, what do you hope to see on campus in terms of mental health, equity and inclusion, or student wellbeing? 

Muwonge: I’d like them to account for the fact that while everyone who pursues higher education has worked hard to be there, not everybody has been adequately supported to thrive in that place. And it’s important to consider the fact that many people may not have the necessary K-12 education that they need to succeed in higher education. They may not have the financial support that they need to thrive, whether they struggle with tuition costs or just being able to afford groceries, transportation, or visiting family back home if they attend college out of state. Again, everybody’s worked hard to be there, but not everybody’s being adequately supported to thrive. What I hope to see when I get to college is financial freedom, financial security for myself and my peers. I’d like to see universities place an emphasis on requiring all students to pursue an internship or some sort of professional experience within their college education, because analyzing the statistics of our nation right now, a college education in most cases isn’t enough. Many colleges do have access to different internship opportunities, but not all students utilize them or even know about those programs. If colleges were encouraging or even requiring students to gain exposure in their fields, I believe it would help set their students up for success. 

LearningWell: You’re now a high school senior in the midst of the college application process. Do you anticipate that institutions’ mental health programs and resources will have any bearing on your college decision? 

Muwonge: A lack of mental health services would be extremely deterring. I’ve done some research into wellbeing resources, and it has weeded out certain colleges. If I find that they aren’t able to adequately support and account for my and my peers’ mental health, especially when you’re considering out-of-state colleges where you won’t have in-state insurance, or you won’t have family close by, it affects the decision. If you are low-income, it may not be as easy to afford mental health services, and it’s important for me to go to a university that will accommodate that. If I’m investing into this university for my education, I’d like to see that what I invest is going to serve me and my peers. 

LearningWell: Do you plan on continuing your advocacy work when you go to college? 

Muwonge: I’m intentional about making a home somewhere that has convenient transportation and is a walkable city. That way I’m able to contribute to different communities and local organizations, so that I can continue serving in a way that is bigger than myself and bigger than my college campus.

Posted in Q&A

Q&A with Marcus Hotaling, Director of the Eppler-Wolff Counseling Center at Union College and President of AUCCCD

In March 2023, the Association for University and College Counseling Center Directors (AUCCCD) released a policy paper that provides a foundation for structuring how higher education can approach mental health support. “Navigating a Path Forward for Mental Health Services in Higher Education” lays out some of the issues facing the field, including staff burnout and turnover, misallocation of resources, lack of coordination between campus stakeholders, ineffective or incongruous treatment models and the proliferation of third-party vendors. The paper offers some recommendations for addressing these concerns with an overarching theme that campus stakeholders must work together to create a realistic, agreed-upon, campus-wide approach–and then act on that plan with consistent messaging and communication to all constituents. This month, LearningWell (LW) magazine interviewed Dr. Marcus Hotaling, director of the Eppler-Wolff Counseling Center at Union College and president of the AUCCCD, to discuss the paper and “the path forward.”

LW: The AUCCCD recently published a paper that lays out a path forward for college mental health services amid high rates of mental health concerns and help-seeking among college students, and at the same time, increased burnout and dissatisfaction among counselors. What led the AUCCCD to develop this paper?

MH:  I think we’ve all been feeling the burnout for some years. Every year, up until the pandemic, my counseling center was seeing increased utilization—more students and more sessions. And while more students is understandable, we continuously saw more sessions with the same amount of staff, going above the national standard of about 65% face-to-face time for counselor. When I became president of AUCCCD in 2021, we had started to look at themes as to why people were leaving. We have 895 active members. In that first year, 81 of our members left for various reasons. Burnout was a huge factor, due to, in large part, getting pressure from all directions. You’re getting pressure from the students who want to be seen right away. You’re getting pressure from parents calling you. And then you’re getting pressure from the higher-ups who are getting called by parents or faculty members.

We also looked at where these counselors were going. The majority of them, two thirds, left the field of higher education and went into private practice. And there were two factors that led to that. The first was salary—you can make more in private practice. Some people went to the local hospitals and the salary is $50,000 more than their institution was paying. And the second reason was that, when you’re in private practice and you’re full, you just say, “I’m sorry, I’m not accepting new patients.” You can’t do that in a college setting. So, we started to look at the burnout piece and how higher ed and counseling can work together to try to resolve this problem.

LW: What were your goals in issuing this paper? What was it meant to convey?

MH:  We didn’t want to just say, “Colleges, you just need to hire more people,” because we know that’s not realistic. But what is realistic is everybody coming to the table and saying, “What services do we want to offer?” Let’s all be on the same page; let’s all have the same messaging around that, and then let’s actually do that. Because, in the counseling center, we can develop whatever service model we want, but if admissions or faculty or someone else is telling a student they could be seen six times a week, that’s not helpful. If we have people saying there are session limits when we don’t have session limits, that’s not helpful.

It’s important for counseling center leadership and student affairs leadership, and presidents, to come up with a plan of action to determine, based on the staffing we have, what we can provide. There needs to be a plan of action.

LW: The paper points out that colleges are making decisions about the service delivery model based on meeting the volume of demand, rather than taking an outcomes-based approach. Why, in your view, are institutions approaching mental health care that way? 

MH: I think part of it is that, for the most part, it’s really just fallen onto the counseling center staff to say what we need to do. And the reality is, that can be really hard when you don’t have the opportunity to step back and try something different or think about how it can be done differently.

I’m going to use my center as an example. There was one day that I opened up the schedule and there were just tons of appointments. And I said to my associate director, “Look, I’m seeing your schedule today. That’s not healthy. Your last patient is getting nothing from you. You’re exhausted.” So, we sat down over a school break and looked at how to change things. Everything was on the table. And that takes time, and it takes trust. We did get some pushback from our staff, but the approach was to give it a shot until the end of the year. And if it didn’t work, we’d change it again.

The reason why the usual approach is all over the place is that we’re just trying to meet the demand. And it’s like a dam that’s breaking where we plug one hole, and then all of a sudden there’s another hole over here. It’s still coming in; the water’s still flowing. And how many fingers do I have to plug these holes? And it’s only when you can take that step back that you can come up with a new way of doing things.

The demand is so high and you’re just trying to bail water out of the boat before you can actually sit down and plan. And that’s what we were trying to say in this paper: Do the planning, take the initiative to sit down with your leadership and say, “What can I do? What do you want? What does this school want to offer?” And we will work around that with the current staff. And maybe we’ll need to grow staff in the future.

But we are starting to see the numbers fall. One of the positives that came out of the pandemic is that states are starting to look at patients being able to cross over state lines for care. Clinicians are also more comfortable using telehealth and teletherapy. So, if you’ve been working with somebody for a long time, rather than saying, “Go see somebody at college because you’re two hours away,” counselors can continue to see their patients. So, the numbers are falling a little bit, but a little bit from a flood is still a flood.

“Do the planning, take the initiative to sit down with your leadership and say, “What can I do? What do you want? What does this school want to offer?”

LW: You point out that there is a mismatch of expectations, like having admissions promote a certain number of sessions that does not align with the reality of what can be offered. But even if you fix that inconsistency in messaging, do you think there’s also a cultural expectation that students, when they get to college, are going to be cared for in this way and they’re going to have access to therapy? And if so, is there going to be a difficulty in pushing back against that cultural expectation?

MH: Absolutely. Look, students are paying a lot of money to go to college, and with that comes a certain level of expectation across the board. When it comes to the expectations that parents have or families have, we also need to move away from the normalcy that every student is going to get through in four years. And that taking some time off isn’t a bad thing if you’re making good use of that time by working on yourself and getting healthy, so that when you come back, you’re going to be in a better place.

LW: So many issues, like leaves of absence as you suggest, involve more of a public health approach. What is the role of the counseling center in this approach?

MH: This whole thing is a public health problem. And I say that not to remove our responsibility or the individual responsibility of the students or counseling center. There are two reasons I say this is a public health problem. One, counseling centers and mental health for the past 20 years has been pushing for parity. We should be treated just like physical health. Let’s reduce the stigma. And it worked and that’s good. And then you have a challenging outside world. There’s war, there’s political unrest, a recession, a pandemic, school shootings. All these things create anxiety. On top of that, we have these expectations, real or imagined, that everybody else’s life is perfect, which we can see on their Instagram reel.

So, for a public health approach, yes, the community needs to do better about addressing gun violence and addressing systemic racism. But once they’re on our campuses, we can give students the tools to stay happy and healthy, while also recognizing that [every person is] going to have bad days.

We also need to help our constituents around campus recognize when somebody actually needs therapy versus when they might just need empathy or a listening ear. We need to help faculty and staff understand that referring a student to counseling is not the first thing you do. The first thing to do is say, “Are you okay? What do you need? I’m so sorry.”

These are public health approaches that are very, very simple and need no training from a mental health professional. All of us on a college campus can be approaching this from a public health perspective. It’s a public health issue, and now we need to be using our public health solutions.

LW: All of this – counseling staff wellbeing, policies and procedures and service delivery–its all about overall student health, correct? 

MH: Absolutely. Because if we’re not healthy, how are we helping anybody?

And evidence shows that students who utilize mental health services are retained and graduate at a higher percentage than those who don’t receive mental health care. And in theory, those are the students that are most at risk—the ones that are unhappy, the ones that have a mental health diagnosis. In a National Association of Mental Illness report, 64% of students that are no longer enrolled in higher ed list mental health as the main reason. So, it’s about student success as well.

Q&A with Dr. Félix V. Matos Rodríguez, Chancellor of the City University of New York (CUNY)

CUNY Chancellor Matos Rodríguez is everywhere these days promoting and advocating for a system he calls “the Ellis Island of education.” CUNY has a storied history where separate public colleges, many with famous alumni from underserved communities, came together over time to form the nation’s largest urban public university, serving more than 226,000 degree-seeking students each year. 

Matos Rodríguez, known as “Felo,” is a vital part of that story.  A historian, professor, and author, Matos Rodríguez grew up in Puerto Rico, received a degree in Latin American studies from Yale University and received his PhD in history from Columbia University. He was president of two CUNY colleges before becoming the system’s first chancellor of color and first Latino to hold the office in 2019. Now, after four years and a pandemic, Matos Rodríguez acknowledges many challenges remain despite the progress he has made to build relationships with industry leaders, improve infrastructure at campuses, and create more workforce opportunities for CUNY students. 

In his interview with LW, the chancellor talks about the strategies he is using to improve the career connection for his students, as well as his efforts to strengthen the system. He also opines on broader issues, such as the value of public higher education and how going to college can be both a stressor and a haven for his students. 

CUNY Chancellor Félix V. Matos Rodríguez sitting at a table
Photo provided by CUNY

LW:  What are the priorities you are working on from a systems-wide level?  

FMR: CUNY is probably the best institution in the Unites States to boost social mobility. Nobody does a better job of moving people from the bottom quartiles of the socioeconomic ladder to the middle class and above than CUNY. We’ve done that by remaining an affordable institution—75% of our students graduate debt free and about 68% attend tuition-free, thanks to state and federal aid. We also have top-notch faculty and staff. Affordability and quality staff are two of CUNY’s strengths. 

What we have not done as well, particularly for a place where half the students are first-generation, is career preparedness and the whole connection to the world of work.  There has been vast underinvestment, historically, in career services, and not a lot done to integrate that world of work with curriculum and academic departments to really prepare students for careers. We’ve changed that with help from our partners in city and state leadership and the private sector.

LW: How do you tackle such a major issue at such a big place?

FMR: I break it into buckets.  The data we have on students participating, for example, in paid internships, tell us that those who participate in those programs graduate faster. When they go to get a job after graduation, they get it faster than their peers without that experience and their first-time pay is higher.  The other value here is the professional capital these opportunities create.  All college students come with assets and challenges, but the students with professional parents can often leverage their family’s networks once they graduate.  More than half of my students don’t have that. We need to be that connector to opportunities for them. Right from the start, I said, “I want to be known, at the end of my time, as the patron saint of paid internships for CUNY students.”

Nobody does a better job of moving people from the bottom quartiles of the socioeconomic ladder to the middle class and above than CUNY.

We have made a lot of progress in this area. A coalition of CEOs from some of the city’s largest employers was created three years ago to provide access to high-potential jobs for underrepresented New Yorkers. Another industry partnership, CUNY Futures in Finance, was formed by Centerbridge Partners, Bloomberg, and Goldman Sachs to connect financial services to CUNY talent.  We’ve also launched a number of public-private partnerships which, thanks to a strong backing from Governor Hochul and Mayor Adams, put millions of dollars to work on paid apprenticeships and internships for CUNY students.  

The point I really drive home to industry in New York is that our paid internships do all the things that paid internships do everywhere but because of our price point, it can really be an extra agent of advancement. Our tuition is approximately $7,000 a year for senior colleges and $5,000 a year for community colleges, for New York State residents. That paid internship that they have for a semester, if they were going to a community college, could pay for their semester. If they’re on financial aid, then that extra money can be used for food and housing, and all the other expenses we know make it challenging for them to stay in school. It’s like a scholarship. When I was president at Queens and a donor or alumni would come and say, “I’m going to give you $7,000, for a scholarship for a year,” I said, “No, give it to me in a paid internship.” At the end of the day, it will do the same thing financially for the student, but give that student a lot more in experience.  

CUNY is the ideal partner for New York industry.  I say to them, “We are a one-stop shop, come and deal with CUNY because we have 25 campuses, so if you’re an employer and you don’t want to have 25 conversations, we have a whole operation that can do that for you.”

LW: What other “buckets” are you working on in this area? 

FMR: We are integrating career preparedness into all that we do, including in the classroom and to get students to think about career options as early as possible and not in a narrow way. You want to make students think about career possibilities and begin to explore them and determine whether there’s a path, a liking, or not. And we don’t want them to wait until junior year or senior year and say, “Oh my God, I need to get a job. Now I need to think about all these things.” 

The second reason why students drop out of college—finances is the first one—is not knowing why they’re in college in the first place, and also not being able to make a connection with what they’re doing in college with what will happen in life later. So that entire career exploration is what I think we owe our students. And that’s why we want to get to career options early, to make students think about it. We’re actually trying to map for every major—and in fields within majors, not just the courses—some of the activities that you should be engaged in.  A lot of our students think career services are only for high-performing students with really good grades. My role is to get them introduced to careers, make them feel worthy of them, and then go out and compete and kick some butt.

Chancellor Félix V. Matos Rodríguez with CUNY students and moscot
Photo provided by CUNY

LW: You mentioned incorporating this work into the classroom.  What does that entail? 

FMR: Curriculum revision is another bucket we’re working on. The New York Jobs CEO Council is a key partner in helping us think about updating curriculum. It is also a main focus of our new Office of Transformation, headed by an amazing senior faculty advisor Cathy N. Davidson, one of the best writers out there on education, to help us think differently about our pedagogy.  The key to that is to make sure that faculty value this work and have the tools to do it.  So many of them do this already but we are asking them to be more intentional about it so that their students understand that this exercise that you did here, or this test or this essay or this project, creates skills that they can go to an employer with.  But what I hope that our students do is that, as they’re building a portfolio, either personally or through career services, they think that what they have learned in a class is something they can then go tell someone, “I learned X, Y, and Z in this class, and here’s a concrete example. You need me to work in groups? Let me tell you about the project I did in my history or anthropology class.” 

Faculty have to be our partners in this. We need to help them think about that value, that engagement, because for students, even though they talk to advisors and other staff, faculty are still their key role models. 

Already, faculty have competencies in this area through NACE (National Association of Colleges and Employers), that are embedded into the curriculum, but they’re not necessarily thinking about it that way, so we decided that we need to have champions.  We’ve been working with the president of NACE and with a group of career fellows out of the Office of Transformation. We started with 20 faculty from across CUNY. The fellows have been thinking together about the best ways that CUNY faculty, in all fields, can support our students in their future lives and careers. This year, CUNY will scale the pilot to nearly 50 faculty, with the goal of promoting strong relationships between classroom learning and career success.  

LW: Has your experience as a community college president influenced some of the changes you are working on system-wide?

FMR: Absolutely.  Transfers have always been the key driver in the system. The transition from community college to four-year schools has to be improved, so that students aren’t set back in time and money by needless requirements.  This is a challenge for two and four-year schools everywhere, but at CUNY where we’re working within a system, we have no leg to stand on if we don’t get this right. 

The second reason why students drop out of college – finances is the first one – is not being able to make a connection with what they’re doing in college with what will happen in life later.

At the same time, when I came on board as chancellor, since I was president of a two-year school, I told all the presidents, “We have to improve the two-year experience.”  What often happens is if you come to CUNY and you are not college-ready, you need to start out in a community college. Part of the challenge has been that not every student starting at a community college really wants to be there. So, I told the community college presidents, “You need to create a rationale of why people want to come here. Not because we tell them to, but because either you have the student life or signature programs that they want to engage with.”  This is particularly important at this point in time when we’ve lost so many students to the pandemic.  We need to ask ourselves, outside of the personal circumstances, “Why is it that students don’t want to return or to start in the first place?” 

LW: Do you think one of the reason people stop out, or never enroll, has to do with public perception about the declining value of a college degree? 

FMR: I think that accounts for some percentage. Whatever I tell you will be a guesstimate. What I do think affects us is the perception that higher education is unattainable. Many of our students, particularly the ones who are low-income, assume it will not be affordable because the larger discourse is about debt and lack of affordability. They assume because we’re a part of higher ed that this place is going to be expensive without even thinking about applying for financial aid, or seeing what options are out there, so I think that we are being really affected by a mindset, which is the debt discourse. But that is not our story. Our average debt, for the 25% of the students that end up with debt, is, I think, between $12,000 and $14,000. But it’s hard to get that story out. There’s no validator in many families that can say, “This worked out,” and there might be a validator that somebody went and dropped out and said, “Yeah, look at what happened to cousin so and so.” We need to crack that. I tell people, “Listen, there’s probably no state more generous with financial aid than the state of New York.”

LW: Speaking of New York, what case do you make for why CUNY is worth investing in? 

FMR: The value and the importance of what we do is huge, and 80% of our students stay in New York so they are part of their communities. Graduates get higher paying jobs, which adds to our tax base, and they are less dependent on social service programs. There are also social and civic gains when you think about where all of our immigrants or sons and daughters of immigrants learn about democracy and what it means to be an American in New York City.  There’s another important category of work there of civic engagement, what I like to call civic mobility. That is also a key part of what we bring to the table. 

LW: We know so much about the stresses of college, particularly for students who have the added burden of poverty.  How do CUNY schools and others like them impact their students’ wellbeing? 

FMR: Obviously, there is some stress generated by going to school from a financial perspective.  “Can I pay? Can I stay?” And then there are the exams and the stress that comes from managing your life as a student. In that sense, we do add some stress. 

But we are also such havens for our students.  They’re commuter students and, in many places, the little campus corner where they can sit down and study quietly may be the only place they have some privacy. In my first presidency, every nook and cranny that we could put a desk, a chair, whatever, we used because some of those South Bronx students were in apartments with three or four siblings and they needed quiet space.

For parents of small children, there is often campus childcare. There are also mental health counselors and extracurricular activities that can provide some stress relief. It really is a balance in helping them to manage and overcome the stress of going to college. 

Q&A with Dr. Robert Waldinger, Co-Author of The Good Life

Bob Waldinger is a psychiatrist, a professor at Harvard Medical School, and the Director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, the world’s longest scientific study of happiness.  His new book, The Good Life, with Dr. Marc Schulz, provides insights regarding what makes some people happier and more satisfied than others.  At a time when many of us, particularly young adults, are reporting symptoms antonymous to happiness, such as loneliness and disconnection, the insights he shares based on this research are particularly relevant. 

LW: Your new book, The Good Life, is based on the work you have done in the Harvard Study of Adult Development.  Can you describe the study?  

RW: I am the fourth director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development. As far as we know, it’s the longest study of adult life that’s ever been done in that it follows the same people from when they were teenagers all the way into old age. We’re in our 85th year and we have reached out to the children of our participants as well, the second generation. All in all, we’ve followed over 2,000 people over many decades. In essence, this is a study of human thriving and wellbeing. It started with two groups of males, one very privileged group of male undergraduate students from Harvard College and one very underprivileged group of boys from Boston’s poorest neighborhoods and most troubled families. It started with these two contrasting groups of people and then, over time, we brought in their wives and their children. Currently, more than half of those in our study are women.

Headshot of Dr. Robert Waldinger
Dr. Robert Waldinger

Now, we have this wonderful treasure trove of information on 724 families across 85 years. The study has discovered so many things. There have been hundreds of papers and scores of books, but there are two big takeaways I think are most salient, and very relevant today. One is, no surprise at all, taking care of your health really matters in terms of how long you live and how you feel during your life. Preventative healthcare, exercise, diet, not abusing alcohol or drugs, not smoking—all of that really matters. The finding that we didn’t expect, and, at first, we didn’t believe, was that the people who stayed the healthiest and lived the longest were the people who had the best connections with other people; that our relational lives make a huge difference in not just how happy we are, but how healthy we are and how long we live. And it’s not just our study that has found this, but now many other studies, so there’s now a fairly well-established finding that there is a powerful connection between relationships and health. 

The finding that we didn’t expect, and, at first, we didn’t believe, was that the people who stayed the healthiest and lived the longest were the people who had the best connections with other people.

LW: I think it’s interesting that you started with college students.  We know from the data how prominent mental health struggles are for this population.  What does your work tell us about this age group?

RW: What we know, not just from our study, but from a lot of studies, is that people ages 16-to-24 are the loneliest group of people, at least in the United States, and perhaps around the world—these young adults—adolescents moving into young adulthood—are the most isolated, disconnected population group. And that’s been a surprise to older people who look at young people and think of them as active and involved and so connected with one other. And, of course, many young people are, but there’s a huge subset of young people who are not, who are feeling really disconnected. And this is not just a function of the COVID pandemic, it was in the works before then, COVID just accelerated the upsurge in issues like depression, anxiety, and a sense of isolation. 

LW: If you’re providing some advice based on your data, what might you tell that 19-year-old or 20-year-old who is in college now about the importance of relationships? 

RW: We know that we get all kinds of value from relationships, and we don’t get the same things [from each one]; relationships are all slightly different.  Some relationships are fun, and some relationships are with people we confide in, and some relationships are simply with people who might help us move furniture or drive us to an appointment. Many relationships can serve more than one function, but almost no relationship is going to provide everything. And what that means is, we need to look to different people to meet all kinds of different needs. The best relationships, of course, are relationships that are reciprocal. And one of the things that feels bad about relationships is when they’re not reciprocal, when it feels like I’m always the one who calls my friend or I’m always the one helping out, and I don’t get that in return. 

Mutuality is really important. And one of the things I would ask young people to think about is: How mutual are your relationships? And if they’re not, can you work on that or can you find some people with whom it’s more mutual? Similarly, what we learn is that conflict is inevitable in relationships. That does not mean you want to get rid of that relationship in your life. In fact, if we have enough invested in good relationships then it’s worth trying to work out conflicts.  The work is not to find a conflict-free friend, but to find a friend with whom you can talk to about disagreements. And both people come out feeling okay, like nobody won and nobody lost and that, if anything, you are stronger together because you’ve worked out differences. 

LW:  This is for friendships and romantic relationships, correct? 

RW: Romantic relationships for sure. There is no real romantic relationship without conflict. When I look at people who are about to get married, sometimes I will evaluate couples who come for therapy, and the real question is not, “Are they each other’s soulmate?” but “How do they work out conflicts?” And if they can work out conflicts, they have a good future together. If they can’t find any way to talk about disagreements and come out the other side feeling okay, then they’re in trouble. They either have to develop skills to resolve conflict, or they should find another person with whom it’s not so difficult.

LW: You have some interesting data about perspective and lifespan. What’s that all about?  

RW: Even now, at my age I think, “Why doesn’t everybody think just like me?” And I have to remember from my own research and from looking around me that people think very differently at different ages. People of college-age are going to have a certain view of the world, a certain view of culture, of politics, of the future that older people don’t have, that younger people don’t have. And that’s actually a good thing, because we wouldn’t want a world that was filled with everybody who had the same perspective on life or even one generation dominating everything. Actually, the baby boomers probably dominated a lot of culture for a lot of years and didn’t always turn out so well. 

What we know, not just from our study, but from a lot of studies, is that people ages 16-to-24 are the loneliest group of people, at least in the United States, and perhaps around the world.

I think that the thing we learn from following people over time is that things change in their importance. Let’s say you’re 20 years old now, think about when you were half that age when you were 10 years old, what was important to you then? Well, it’s probably not at all the same stuff that’s important to you now. And when you’re 30, it’s going to shift again. And when you’re 40…and that’s okay, that’s normal. It’s to be expected. But it means that to some extent, we all have to hold our own perspectives a little more lightly and realize that it’s not the only way to look at life. 

LW: What implications does your research have on finding direction in life? 

RW: My sense is that we know that the college years are where we do a lot of figuring out of who we are. “What kind of person am I? Who do I want to align with? What do I value the most? And therefore, how do I want to spend my time on this earth? [Time] is pretty limited, even though it may not seem that way when you’re in college. We can teach ourselves to think about, “What do I value the most?” And if that’s what I value the most, am I actually spending my time promoting those values, doing things that align with those values? Or am I doing things that don’t align with those values at all? In my own life, I’ve ended up taking jobs that I don’t really care about and don’t really like, and that actually promote things I don’t believe in. 

It’s been really important for me to turn back to my own values and say, “Okay, as soon as I can, I’m going to make a change because this is not energizing for me. It’s not making me feel like my time is being well-spent.” And I think that’s the thing that can start when we go to college or university. It’s the thing you can do from day one, and it can help you with course choices. It can help you choose a major. It can help you think about summer internships. It can help you think about where you want to go after college. Then you can settle on some core things that you care deeply about that can become your North Star toward which you can point your decision. 

LW: I know in your workshops you ask people about their core values. Should we be doing this more with young people, with college students?  

RW: Yes. We all have values, but we don’t quite know what they are until someone asks us to clarify them. I’ll give you an example. We’ve started bringing my two sons, who are in their thirties, into our process of deciding about our philanthropy each year. There are a host of good causes, but we had to decide as a family what we were going to give to. And it turned out that my sons value some things differently than I value. I wanted to help with poverty and disease. They wanted to work on climate change. All of them are really important issues. And that’s just a way of saying that even clarifying values is something we don’t always do until someone asks us, and that’s a really good thing.

LW: What are your thoughts on socio-emotional learning?

RW: My friends who work in socio-emotional learning say that when teachers are given curricula to teach the children in their classrooms about feelings or having an argument with a friend, the teachers come back and say, “We need this for us.” What we know is that everybody needs this. You need it at a different level if you’re in college or if you’re a teacher in the middle of your career, but you need it. All of us need it. I practice Zen and a lot of Zen meditation is learning those emotional skills. It’s watching all the feelings and thoughts that come up and drive you crazy and then learning how to work with them. 

LW:  What would be your number one piece of advice for young people out there based on all you have learned? 

RW: Invest in connections with other people. It has the biggest payoff, both in terms of making us happier because it’s more fun to be connected, and in helping us get through the hard times, and the hard times are always coming along when we least expect them. It’s a really good investment of time and energy. Don’t neglect it. Don’t assume that your relationships will just take care of themselves. Keep your friendships going. Keep reaching out. 

Q&A with Dr. Wayne A.I. Frederick, President of Howard University

After a decade as president, Dr. Wayne A.I. Frederick will leave Howard University a very different place than he entered it.  He came to Howard as a 16–year-old undergraduate from Trinidad and Tobago who went on to graduate from both its medical and business schools.  His unusual profile as a surgeon and an academic have served him well as he steered the prestigious HBCU through a remarkable time for Black Americans – starting with the Obama presidency, the Black Lives Matter movement, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the insurrection of January 6th, 2021, which occurred just a few miles from his campus. 

He describes the school’s transformation over the past several years almost as if it were the personal growth of an individual, not an institution. As he prepares to leave the place to which he has long belonged, Dr. Frederick provides a perspective on the country, on young people, and on higher education that is honest and well worth hearing. Here is an excerpt of our interview. 

LW: How has Howard changed under your leadership? 

WF: Howard has always had big potential and a big legacy, and I think today Howard is fulfilling its potential and living its legacy. I think that’s the biggest difference: while we’ve existed on what has happened before, I think we now have a contemporary experience of excellence, and a contemporary expectation of being excellent. And I think that that’s very different.  This is true across categories. We are poised to be an R1 research institution. Financially, we’ve come out well from a very unstable financial existence which, to be quite honest, has been something that has plagued us throughout our history until now.  Our enrollment is the largest it’s ever been, so we’re serving more students than ever before, and also graduating them at a higher rate than ever before, so we are really fulfilling our academic mission.  I would say the third thing is we’re taking care of each other in a way that we haven’t done before. We are a community that’s inclusive, that recognizes the importance of holistic health including mental health. 

LW: What did it take to make these significant changes?  What were the obstacles?  

WF: As I look in the rear-view mirror, bringing my tenure to an end, I would say the biggest obstacle was making sure that we had self-belief.  I think that we believed to a certain extent in our past, but I’m not sure that we always believed that we could be what we are today. And I think that self-belief was something that we had to build.  Our graduates are such an accomplished group of people who become national and international figures, that that legacy of who we are took on a life of its own. But the actual numbers, the actual data, did not necessarily bear that out.  We started really looking at ourselves, doing the introspection but at the same time, setting out a plan to become that. The graduation rate has increased by over 25% during my tenure, as an example. We’re starting to really live out our legacy.

We started to be bold about stepping into spaces and places that we weren’t always welcomed.

The second obstacle was overcoming long-standing issues around how we fund our institution, looking at the business model, looking at what we did with respect to fundraising. And I think we really looked at those things very differently as we moved forward.  We started to be bold about stepping into spaces and places that we weren’t always welcomed. And once we were able to get in there and tell our story, people were very impressed and willing to invest in us.

LW: Your enrollment and graduation rate increases—I’m guessing they had something to do with the work that you’ve been doing on affordability?

WF: Yes. The number one reason that Howard students did not graduate was because of finances.  That financial barrier then led to other things—people working extra jobs, not getting enough sleep, not being able to focus enough on their schoolwork, that type of thing. Coming in, that was an issue that we looked at.  We were not raising enough endowed funds to help offset students’ bills, so we started doing things differently. We started what’s called a Grace Grant, which is a grant that we give to students who have an expected family contribution of zero. They get the maximum Pell [Grant]. We fill the rest of their gap on their tuition in order to help them matriculate.  We immediately started seeing a big difference in the graduation rate. Those students who did not get the full support graduated somewhere in the low 60s percentage-wise. The graduation rate of those who got it was 90-something percent.

We went to investors and donors and said to them, “Look at this data.”  And people started giving money, and we’ve now raised in excess of $45 million in that one area, with a goal of getting all the way to $100 million.  That’s an example where we did something different. We used the data…and convinced our investors that they should invest in us.

LW: Student activism is something that Howard is known for, but it has also been a challenge for you.  How do you reflect on those experiences now?   

WF: When I look at students who come to Howard, they’re very concerned about their place in society and what society has done and not done for them. That’s important and not lost on me.  However, there is some romanticism among students that activism is really all about protesting, none of which I have a problem with. But what I do want to make sure we have is the right balance, that we take our activism and advocacy, and we test it. We use all of the tools of negotiation, of interrogation, of debate, so that we do get the outcome we want. I think we’ve often had this in the wrong order.  Particularly later on in my tenure, I’ve been trying to put the students’ activism to work in a proactive fashion and not wait for there to be an issue to get somebody engaged in a conversation.

LW: What would you say about the politicization of higher education today, the roll back efforts around DEI, the sense that it is too biased, less valuable? 

WF: Let me start by saying that I think the issue in this country right now with extreme partisanship is real and it is causing our young people to question so many things about our society, including the things that we, over time, have come to love and hold up almost as a moral compass.  

We live in a country where we tout our democracy. We tout the ability for free elections. We tout our ability for the transfer of power, unencumbered.  And these young people have now lived in an era where every single one of those things has been questioned.  We’ve portrayed ourselves to the rest of the world as an arbiter of democracy and now we question everything about our elections. We question who should vote, how it should be managed. Young people see that, and they say, “There’s a hypocrisy taking place here. While you guys are casting aspersions afar, we have a problem right here. And you’re not solving it.”

As a result, they have started to turn away from a belief in that system. And I think that has hurt us. And as it seeps into this debate about liberalism in our education system, and turning back the tides on DEI, I think what people have started to say is, “I’m not sure that I believe in any of these things anymore. I feel that you guys are not honest about what it is you’re doing.”  

Young people are questioning even more. They’re questioning the very existence of why we are doing this and how we get here. How are we going to turn this off?  So, in my humble opinion, I think that our young people have to be redirected. How do we solve for this going forward as people question whether higher education is important anymore, in terms of being able to live a better life as a result?  I think what we have to do in higher education is to continue to tout and sell what higher education has been to this country. We have to lift those things up. 

And we do have to question and interrogate how we are providing information.  Is it allowing students to practice critical thinking? I would say that right now, it is not. On the average campus, it’s leaning left or leaning right, and when we bring people from the opposite side to speak on campuses, we’re shutting them down. We’re not having rich debate. And if it is not happening on our campuses, you have to believe it’s not happening in our barber shops, or in our grocery stores. And if we are a country that is not going to speak to each other because we have different views, we’re not going to be as strong as we could be. It’s a very critical time for higher education. I think we have to recognize how disappointed our young people are in our larger societal constructs, and we have to provide a solution for that in our higher ed institutions.

We need to remind our young people that we all belong to this construct, and we all have to figure out a way to make it work. It’s our responsibility, and in doing that, we don’t leave anybody behind.  Right now, we almost have a sanitary view about all this and we just avoid each other.  There are certain things we just don’t go to or participate in. And I think we need to change that, and say, “You know what? That’s not the right thing to do. Let’s go out with the goal of amplifying each other’s humanity.”  

We have to question and interrogate how we are providing information. Is it allowing students to practice critical thinking? I would say that right now, it is not.

And if we make that our goal, then we have a responsibility when we see an issue to jump in; whether we have an expertise or not, we need to learn about it and to understand it.  I don’t live in rural America, but there are challenges for people living in rural America. So the question is, “Do I have a responsibility to learn what those challenges may be?  And, when I do, is there something I could do about it?” Instead, what we say is, “if somebody lives in rural America, that’s not my problem.” And I think we have to get away from that because our goal, our responsibility, as a higher ed institution, is to amplify other people’s humanity.

LW: How can higher education help address these issues? 

WF: I think we have a real gap in civics education in our country. Most students who come to college aren’t aware of who their state reps or senators are, or even how bills get passed, or how laws are made. I think that’s another thing that we have to try to do a better job of—to explain how the country works so that when a Supreme Court decision comes down, students understand that that’s the tail end of a process that started in somebody’s court, in somebody’s jurisdiction. And I don’t think most students recognize that at all.  

Take students’ frustration with, for instance, the overturning of Roe v. Wade. They don’t recognize that the case that led to that started way back, and because nobody was paying attention, it didn’t get the type of activity around it when it should have. And for higher ed students in particular, they should be the most active among us, and they have the most resources to do that. And so, we should be supporting them better in this area.

LW: The January 6th, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capital: How did that impact the Howard community? And the reaction to that in America—what does that say about the separateness you are concerned about?  

WF: Several things about that day I think just encapsulate so much of our reality today. One was that I came out of my office and noticed a significant number of individuals associated with the Proud Boys movement parking their cars in parking lots around Howard. And I realized, subsequent to that, that it was because there was a train station there. But initially, we had no idea why it was happening. Was it because the vice president had gone to school here? So my security chief started setting up cars to kind of block access to the street. And then you go from that, down to the Capitol and all that was going on that day.  I got home and my kids were looking at the television. And I said to both to them, “Listen, you guys have been in front of CNN for the past two-to-three hours.” They were very distressed obviously and I said, “Let’s change the channel. Let’s go on Fox News for a little bit.” And so they did.  

The goal was to stay there for 30 minutes. I think they lasted 10 or 11 minutes and said they couldn’t watch it anymore.  And I said to them, “There are some kids who just did what you guys did. For three hours, they watched Fox News and their version of what is happening is very different from yours. That doesn’t make them bad. That doesn’t make them love this country any less. But it means that they have a different perspective. And part of your responsibility is to see how you can bridge that gap—not to become who they are, but to understand who they are. And to recognize that they have every right to their position as you do. And the more you’re empathetic about their perspective and understand it, even if you disagree with it, the more harmony there could be.”

Unfortunately, we are not giving our young people good examples. There’s a senator who called me to ask about coming to speak to my grad students after the 2016 election.  And I said to the person, “I would love to have you, but I want you to do me a favor. I want you to come with another senator from across the aisle, with whom you’ve worked on something difficult, so my students can see that that’s how you guys work.”  And the person just calmly looked at me and said, “Nah. At least, not this time.” And I thought to myself, “These are the people making laws in our country. If they don’t want to speak to each other, then we can’t expect our young people to take anything else away from it.”

For me, what is worse than the yelling is the silence.  There is a distressing silence in this country and that is the sound of people not speaking to each other. That is even more dangerous. And that’s why I started with why I think young people are so jaded today. They have the attitude of, “Why are you trying to tell me what to do when you guys can’t get it together yourselves?”  And the thing is, our young people actually are much more flexible and much more empathetic about people who are not in their circumstances, so we have an opportunity in the country. Young people are much more altruistic. They’re much more willing to understand a person’s sexual orientation or a person’s financial or social circumstances than older generations are. So, I think that we have to jump on that opportunity, because they have that openness. 

LW: As president of Howard, you are very active in the HBCU community. What are some of the biggest issues facing the sector right now? 

WF: I would say funding of infrastructure is really the challenge. After George Floyd’s murder, giving to social justice issues really spiked and HBCUs got a lot of attention.  But it wasn’t the entire sector. It probably was 20-to-25 institutions out of a hundred that really got attention and got money. That money has since gone away in many ways. Howard’s infrastructure around fundraising was there so we will continue to do well, but I’m really, really concerned that if those institutions are not able to have sustainable growth and sustainable funding, we could get into trouble as an entire sector.  

The question we need to answer is why is it even important to have strong HBCUs? Well, the data show that we produce and diversify so many fields—way above what our collective capacity is—and that we have to exist in order to diversify other, different fields.  Howard still sends more African Americans to medical school than any school in the country, as an example.   

But I do worry that this attention that has occurred over the past two or three years to some segment of the sector, which has already started to go away, will ultimately hurt the sector, because of longer-term neglect.  People now are going to say, “Well, listen. We jumped in and gave you guys some support and funding. And now we don’t have to do that.”

The second thing that I think is important for us to be thinking about is that we have to be competitive on an even playing field. The product that we supply has to be one of excellence. And I know that I speak for Howard in particular, but that has been our focus. We’ve been very focused on having the best programs, the best exposure that our students could get. And I’m very proud of what we’ve built around that.  Students who come here have very strong track records in terms of where they end up in their jobs and in life. That’s something that we’ve invested in, and that we’re committed to long-term.

LW: Speaking of improvements, you have made headlines with some of your hires.  How does that fit into the story? 

WF: It’s a good question because again, I think this is a demonstration of what I’ve been talking about. These are people that make a big splash. There’s no doubt about it because of their celebrity. But my attraction to them was really because of their excellence and their commitment to that excellence.  I developed a relationship with Ta-Nehisi Coates that was very personal and that started off with me convincing him to finish his degree. A little-known fact is that this famous author who is on my campus as a faculty member and teaching and holding a chair, is also matriculating to finish his degree. And that shows his commitment to excellence. I think when people see what Ta-Nehisi is producing, they’ll know this is far more than having a big name join you.  He had a writing workshop for students in the summer that he began before he started teaching. I will predict that several of those students are going to go on to become great authors like [him].  And that, ultimately, is going to be his legacy as well.  But that’s the type of excellence that he’s bringing. 

With Nikole Hannah-Jones, that was obviously a bit more opportunistic but, again, she had lots of other schools trying to step into this and I think the conversation that she had with me was quite different. I was not promising the bells and whistles. But what I was promising is that we would fulfill her mission to make sure that the role that journalism plays in our democracy would be alive and well. And I think that that intersection of our principles and mission is what attracted her to Howard. 

There is a distressing silence in this country and that is people not speaking to each other.

With Phylicia Rashad, I have to admit, I got a great assist from Chadwick Boseman, having him help me convince her to become the dean [of the College of Fine Arts].  Because [Rashad] could see so much in [Boseman], that she would then see in our young people, I knew what her commitment was. 

By the time this is published, I will have made another important hire.  All of these people, in my opinion, whether it’s Stacey Abrams or [a future hire], they have been excellent in their own right.  In my recruitment of them, we’ve been having conversations about what that excellence looks like, and how that fits in with what we are trying to do at Howard.

Unfortunately, sometimes that celebrity has overshadowed the other incredible faculty we’ve hired – nobody is going to put them on the front of the New York Times but, the reality is, I think in terms of academia, they are stars. That’s the other thing that I think hasn’t been well-told about our story – we’ve certainly been consistent.  It just so happens that the public personalities have gotten a lot of attention. 

LW: You have less than a year left as president, will you give us a hint as to what you are going to do next?  

WF: My intent is to retire, to really just take some time. I have committed to the board that when my successor gets here (Ben Vinson III, current provost of Case Western Reserve University), I will actively help him with the transition.  We’re already meeting once a week right now. Subsequent to that, I have a son who plays soccer in college and a daughter who plays volleyball—she’s a rising senior in high school—and I’m going to try to make it to every one of their games. I’m going to continue to travel with my wife. I want to travel to places where I could do some medical missions as well. I want to try to do about four medical missions a year. The other thing I’m committed to doing is going to Trinidad once a month to help mentor kids and that includes helping them to apply to higher ed in the U.S.

LW: That’s wonderful. Your wife, is she also a physician?

WF: No, she is the smart one in the family. She has a degree in computer science.